Mod-Combination

[Skryp _ LotzoTheUltraBear 52]

Hi guys,

one quick question, because it annoys us really hard.

Is it allowed to combine mods, in this case the pbo's, in one "own" mod.

Apart from this, that we weren't not asked, there is also no notice from whom the mods are, like credits or something else. 

[Z80CPU 527]

Hello Skryp,

Yes, you can.  You MIGHT have to change some paths in the original PBO's, but you can.  I have about 5-6 in one single PBO.  On one of them, I did have to change the paths, but that was easy.

I do this as it allows to have control over what is/what is not in use.  This is called 'Version Control'.  From my observations, basically no one utilizes this practice on any ARMA server, though, they should... 

If version 1.1 works on my server and 1.2 breaks it, why upgrade?  All players are using MY mod ONLY which contains version 1.1.  The server still works regardless of the upgrade.  ARMA being updated?  Well...that is a different story... 

Also, by using a mod such as this, allows for you to 'brand' your server.  If your server name was 'Billy Bobs Bomb Shack', you could call the PBO 'BillyBobsBombShack.PBO'.  Anytime anyone sees it, knows it is used on YOUR server!  A 'poor mans' version of advertising... 

 

Example:

Original:  exec orgmod\code.sqs

New:  exec mypbo\orgmod\code.sqs

 

You can use something like NotePad++ to change the paths in one whack.

Use COPIES of the PBO's - NOT THE ORIGINALS!

Then Test, Test, Test!

 

[Major Mittens. 13]

3 hours ago, Z80CPU said:

Hello Skryp,

Yes, you can.  You MIGHT have to change some paths in the original PBO's, but you can.  I have about 5-6 in one single PBO.  On one of them, I did have to change the paths, but that was easy.

I do this as it allows to have control over what is/what is not in use.  This is called 'Version Control'.  From my observations, basically no one utilizes this practice on any ARMA server, though, they should... 

If version 1.1 works on my server and 1.2 breaks it, why upgrade?  All players are using MY mod ONLY which contains version 1.1.  The server still works regardless of the upgrade.  ARMA being updated?  Well...that is a different story... 

Also, by using a mod such as this, allows for you to 'brand' your server.  If your server name was 'Billy Bobs Bomb Shack', you could call the PBO 'BillyBobsBombShack.PBO'.  Anytime anyone sees it, knows it is used on YOUR server!  A 'poor mans' version of advertising... 

 

Example:

Original:  exec orgmod\code.sqs

New:  exec mypbo\orgmod\code.sqs

 

You can use something like NotePad++ to change the paths in one whack.

Use COPIES of the PBO's - NOT THE ORIGINALS!

Then Test, Test, Test!

 

I wouldn't without getting permission from the mod creators, if you've just packed them into one and uploaded to the steam workshop, I imagine you're gonna get DMCAd.

 

 

[Z80CPU 527]

Not really.  Using them on your server and that is what he wants to do, is fine.  DMCA is based on copyright violations.  What he wants to, does NOT modify the code nor is he claiming it is his.  If he did that, then THAT IS A VIOLATION.

In simple terms, he is 'zipping up' several mods to be played on his server by allowing the users to get one mod versus 20. 

Or saying that an apple is rotten because it is in a paper sack but not rotten if it is in a plastic sack.  The container matters not concerning if the apple is rotten or not.

If one charges in ANY manner, THEN, there would be an issue (unless noted in the author's usage agreement).  This is not what he is doing.

 

Combining mods into a single download has been and is being done now on Steam without issues from Valve or the authors.

See: 

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=107410&searchtext=life&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=107410&searchtext=life+mod&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=107410&searchtext=exile+mod&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems

 

Calling someone another person's work as your is WRONG.

Not using the material as designed and handing it out in a manner not approved by the author is WRONG.

Charging to use CR material when not permitted by the author is WRONG.

 

As someone who has actually brought suit against a company for CR violations, shut down a company, shut down a website, and shut down a game server, I have a 'good feel' of what is or what is not right.  No, I am not an attorney, though, I do have a good and practical knowledge in the area of law.

 

Zipping up stuff does not violate any laws, ethics, or morals.  Usage outside of server game play would be.

 

As a programmer of 40+ years (yes, I am an old man) and with hundreds of CR under my belt, I truly appreciate your concern which was demonstrated!  I wish more though like you!

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by Z80CPU

[Major Mittens. 13]

3 hours ago, Z80CPU said:

Not really.  Using them on your server and that is what he wants to do, is fine.  DMCA is based on copyright violations.  What he wants to, does NOT modify the code nor is he claiming it is his.  If he did that, then THAT IS A VIOLATION.

In simple terms, he is 'zipping up' several mods to be played on his server by allowing the users to get one mod versus 20. 

Or saying that an apple is rotten because it is in a paper sack but not rotten if it is in a plastic sack.  The container matters not concerning if the apple is rotten or not.

If one charges in ANY manner, THEN, there would be an issue (unless noted in the author's usage agreement).  This is not what he is doing.

 

Combining mods into a single download has been and is being done now on Steam without issues from Valve or the authors.

See: 

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=107410&searchtext=life&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=107410&searchtext=life+mod&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=107410&searchtext=exile+mod&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems

 

Calling someone another person's work as your is WRONG.

Not using the material as designed and handing it out in a manner not approved by the author is WRONG.

Charging to use CR material when not permitted by the author is WRONG.

 

As someone who has actually brought suit against a company for CR violations, shut down a company, shut down a website, and shut down a game server, I have a 'good feel' of what is or what is not right.  No, I am not an attorney, though, I do have a good and practical knowledge in the area of law.

 

Zipping up stuff does not violate any laws, ethics, or morals.  Usage outside of server game play would be.

 

As a programmer of 40+ years (yes, I am an old man) and with hundreds of CR under my belt, I truly appreciate your concern which was demonstrated!  I wish more though like you!

 

I have seen plenty of DMCAs get handed out and *poof* the mod is no longer on the SW.

 

Is it actually worth the effort to pack and then upload? You could assemble them into a collection, create a mod and list all the others as a dependancy..

You require more effort than the other two.

Likely forcing people to redownload existing mods, and for what? You want to save yourself a few minutes with your server?

We do live in the age where HDD space is pretty cheap but then, people can be cheap too. 

 

I do not see the point in doing it, there's other ways of making it a walk in the park.

[Z80CPU 527]

Because you like apples and he does not; makes neither wrong.  'To each his own'.

I would recommend you 'study up' on 'Version Control'.  There is a reason every major software company (MS, Apple, Google, etc.) employ such as well as every major quality control systems (ISO/Lean Manf./Six Sigma, etc.).  Even Exile employs version control on a minor level.

While it might not 'suit' you, does not mean it does not have its place.  Because you cannot see 'air', does NOT mean it does not exist.

 

And perhaps the MOST IMPORTANT THING is that he asked a question.  And he got his answer.  It is not your place nor mine to condemn/judge him.  He merely asked if it could be done, not if it was 'moral', 'ethical', or 'legal', WHICH IT IS.  You made mention of stuff being yanked from Steam, without seeing all supplied documents from all three sides, you can not offer ANY OPINION.  You are operating out of ignorance as you were NOT PRIVY to what went on in the 'background'.

If you think it is illegal, do this, HERE IS THE ACTUAL LAW, quote me the ACTUAL CODE where it states that this is against the law.  You see, for a DMCA complaint to be VALID, the violation MUST violate the aforementioned law.  Please supply the evidence you claim that is valid.

 

In conclusion, he merely asked a question and was given an answer.  He did not ask us to 'judge' him.  That is NOT the purpose of this website.

[Torndeco 233]

You can't modify someone else's work unless the license allows for it or you got permission.
Also Valve asks for the right to modify workshop content, which is not something you can give if you aren't original author or got permission or license gives you the rights.

Note: Also there are steam workshop crawlers now in use for arma community to find people that repackage addons.
There are plently of mod authors will file DMCA to get repackaged work removed.
If you attempt to re-package or upload most major addons for arma like CUPS/RHS etc you will get DMCA'ed

Yes its a pain there is no version control for steam workshop, but that is a seperate issue

[maca134 361]

Too clear things up, Exile CANNOT be uploaded to Steam without the permission from the authors, please read the licence info here https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/

This doesnt apply to individual pbo's, it applies to the files as they are distributed on the website, as in "the package". Ripping out pbos and dumping them into another mod breaks the NoDerivatives clause.

[Major Mittens. 13]

12 hours ago, Z80CPU said:

Because you like apples and he does not; makes neither wrong.  'To each his own'.

I would recommend you 'study up' on 'Version Control'.  There is a reason every major software company (MS, Apple, Google, etc.) employ such as well as every major quality control systems (ISO/Lean Manf./Six Sigma, etc.).  Even Exile employs version control on a minor level.

While it might not 'suit' you, does not mean it does not have its place.  Because you cannot see 'air', does NOT mean it does not exist.

 

And perhaps the MOST IMPORTANT THING is that he asked a question.  And he got his answer.  It is not your place nor mine to condemn/judge him.  He merely asked if it could be done, not if it was 'moral', 'ethical', or 'legal', WHICH IT IS.  You made mention of stuff being yanked from Steam, without seeing all supplied documents from all three sides, you can not offer ANY OPINION.  You are operating out of ignorance as you were NOT PRIVY to what went on in the 'background'.

If you think it is illegal, do this, HERE IS THE ACTUAL LAW, quote me the ACTUAL CODE where it states that this is against the law.  You see, for a DMCA complaint to be VALID, the violation MUST violate the aforementioned law.  Please supply the evidence you claim that is valid.

 

In conclusion, he merely asked a question and was given an answer.  He did not ask us to 'judge' him.  That is NOT the purpose of this website.

I gotta point out I love the time and effort you put into your posts but I get discouraged from reading them when you decide CAPITALS and BOLD are in every other sentence.

 

You're right, I didn't see what was happening on each side. I generally browse the #ip-rights-violation channel and I often see people pasting SW links with a reuploaded comment, often asking for them to remove it, refusal, DMCA annnnd poof. It's definitely worth a browse and a big bag of popcorn.

I don't see where I was judging him, I was directing the questions to you more (Considering I quoted you..)

Thankfully one of the comments outlines what'd very likely happen.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Major Mittens.
"to" changed "with a"

[Z80CPU 527]

I appreciate your comment  Mittens, though far from the truth.  'Every other sentence'? 

Here are the facts:

Post #1:  17 sentences, 3 emphasis = 18%

Post #2:  19 sentences, 5 emphasis = 26%

Post #3:  19 sentences, 7 emphasis = 37%

To satisfy your observations, the percent would have to be at a minimum, 50%.  It is no where near that.  If you wish to accuse, please ensure you speak from a point of KNOWLEDGE, not ASSUMPTIONS.  That is just basic respect. 

And also, caps and bold are used for emphasis.  This based on and permitted in English grammatical rules and writing styles.

 

I do appreciate your acknowledgement on Steam.  Very few have the guts to do such, and you have garnered respect with me concerning this too! 

 

I also appreciate others who added to this as well.  However,  where did he state he was uploading Exile?  Where did this person state he was uploading to Steam?  What is next?  Someone stating you cannot upload Win10?  'Star Wars, The Last Jedi'? 

And to quote what Maca134 states "Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format"  IS PERMITTED per the 'Creative Commons Public License'

See HERE

 

Yall have gone off the deep end...seeing stuff that was NEVER said.