Fixing Skydiving

[Spin Khan 0]

Does anyone know if the inability to actually skydive/fly before opening your chute is an ArmA bug or is it an Exile bug?  The HALO spawning would be a great singular way to handle respawning/reinforcements for an entire map rather than specific and limited 'bambi' cities however not being able to purposely fly and move yourself laterally across the ground (rather than just spinning in place) really limits the effectiveness of a halo spawn.  I'd like to see if we couldn't fix this, any insights?

Thanks!

[Z80CPU 527]

Hello Spin Khan.

You could start up the editor and try this and see what is what.

 

I am not too sure if I understand your question though.  BUT, if I do, you can move in any direction, however, when you do, you lose altitude at the same time.

 

If I was facing north and I wished to go west, I would turn my body (NOT head) to face west and use the 'forward' key to 'nose down'.  At which time, I would move westward, all the while losing height.

 

I found to gain the maximum distance, to open your chute as soon as you 'enter'.  This will allow you to glide as much as possible.

To do what I think you're asking, would require the 'gliding suit', which is not in default ARMA/Exile.

See:  Gliding Suits

 

In real life, this is exactly how it is done.

[papahyooie 144]

You can move laterally while skydiving... press forward... 

[Spin Khan 0]

Yeah, I do press forward, not my first rodeo, been playing a long time.  Unfortunately, this isn't quite how it works IRL!  The lateral movement you get in Exile minor, so minor in fact that if it were a math problem it would round to Zero, which is why I discounted the small amount of moment.  

So sure, you can get dropped officially over 5th street and press forward while gliding and maybe make it to 8th street (of course dependent upon how high you were dropped) but this isn't how it's supposed to work.  Now granted, right now we're usually not dropped from much altitude and it is somewhat server dependent.  Still, about the highest I've seen is 1.5k which begs the question of why it's called HALO in the first place, but even at 1km, you can't move 200m laterally.  Even without a wingsuit, average, experienced skydivers should be hitting closer to a 1:1 glide ratio.  Of course, y'all can do this homework yourself, I'm still wondering if this can't be fixed but I'm not sure if it's an ArmA thing or an Exile thing.  I never played single player ArmA much at all, so I'm not sure how the core game does in this regard.  Again, anyone?

 

Thanks!

[Z80CPU 527]

#1 - As far as in real life, I would beg to differ.  11B10P.  If you know what that is, then you know why I said what I did... 

#2 - Also, you seem to forget to factor in wind speed/direction.

#3 - HALO is not 'modeled' correctly in ARMA on any level.

"...A HALO (High Altitude Low Opening) jump is describing a parachute jump from high altitude beginning between 28,000ft and 35,060ft (8.600-10.686 m)...the air is thin too, to breathe without an oxygen mask. You are in the death-zone up there! "

http://www.space-affairs.com/index.php?wohin=halo_tandem

 

As I stated, you can start the editor up and try this yourself.  Without me starting up ARMA, I do believe I have 'glided' almost 1k.  Again, this is from memory only.

 

Of course, you (I am too lazy) can do the math and see for yourself.  A good starting point is HERE.

 

Do keep this in mind, not everything in ARMA is modeled after real life.  ARMA also is NOT a 'true simulator' either.  You cannot shoot out view ports in vehicles - you can in real life.  A single RPG can take out/stop most cars -> light armor - not in ARMA.  A while back, if you 'fell off' a .3m high 'step', you would be injured - not in real life (this has since been fixed).  I could go on and on.

 

You are correct though, why is it called 'HALO'?  Me thinks to 'sound kool' for and by kiddies, who do not know better like you and I!

 

To answer your question, again, start up the editor and place yourself in the clouds and try it!  If it works, then it MIGHT be an Exile issue.  If it fails, then it is an ARMA issue.  REMEMBER! ALL Exile servers use different mods/configs, this COULD be also why it appears not to work too!

 

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Z80CPU

[Z80CPU 527]

I did just now, go check default ARMA, you basically do not move anywhere UNTIL your chute is open.  My speed increased, but that was about it.  I did move a tad, maybe about 1 block (if that) @ 805m (.5 miles) in height.  So I guess I was remembering myself moving with the chute open.

So this is an 'unrealistic' movement within ARMA and has nothing to do with Exile.  My test also had zero winds in use.

[Spin Khan 0]

Cool, well I appreciate you doing this.  You just forgot to add in the 'you were right' part, but if you were 11B you get a pass!  I was 19D and I today I fly'em I don't leave 'em!   

So, you confirmed my suspicions, thank you.   I figured it was vanilla Arma but I hadn't researched any further and only asked because someone might have actually already knew.  That and, even if I did find out what you did, it's good to get observations validated by others, and that's really what's valuable to me about you taking the time to look into it!  Dukes!

Now I wonder if it's possible to 'fix' it?

Your height of 805m is interesting, and while this certainly is not actual HALO heights ( I agree the term is just one used for fun not accuracy, which is fine)  but except for airborne parachuting, which is meant to get you boys down as fast as possible without killing you and /over/ the DZ, as a pilot I know many skydivers and I've asked this question before and while a novice my not be able to get 1:1 flying glide, with any reasonable level of experience this is very realistically achievable.  And now that I'm thinking about it, I'd suppose you'd have to infer that tracking distance does NOT include the time under canopy else it wouldn't be called by it's own term!   So, minus any wind working against you, at 850m in height, you should have been able to get to at least that far or farther IF gliding was modelled correctly. 

FWIW's I'd pay for a fix for this, that's how much I'd like to see it working correctly.  I wonder if, with a mod, we can't 'more properly' adjust this lateral tracking.  I've played on a few servers that limit this spawn/jump height at much lower values but most seem to default, I think exile itself defaults, to 1k.  I don't know how high you can set this?  Can we get 2k?  But I think it would be really cool to eliminate ALL bambi towns, randomize the DZ from the center of the map out to about 1/2 the radius of the general extent of the map and new spawns/ new criminals are ALL dropped in from 2k, allowed then to track how they want, float under canopy how they want and while you'd not necessarily be able to get everywhere at all times from your drop point, it would be much better balanced, fit into the back story better and overall be a better, balanced way to handle respawns.  At least, that's what we'd like to do.

Other ideas welcomed!

Thanks again!

 

 

[Z80CPU 527]

That I did to forget 'I was wrong' and it was an oversight.  If you read further back, I did state you were correct on the calling it 'HALO'.  If I was what you were thinking, I would not even posted what I did.  And I did state too that I could be wrong, upfront.

Regardless, thank you for your comment and your assessment.  Remember, this is about helping, not judging 'who is right and who is wrong'. 

The 805m is because I have a 'cheat' PBO that I created which allows me to spawn .25 mile, .5 mile, 1 mile, or 5 miles up.  805m = .5 miles.  It is a good enough height to 'test' with.  If it worked, I should move at least 1-2 blocks.  I moved about 30'/10m.

And as far as spawning, I have mine set to 2k.  JUST so people can open their chutes as quickly as possible to be able to glide.  As above, my cheat PBO allows me to spawn with a parachute 5 miles up.  I have gone as far as 10 miles up.  The limit?  Beats me... 

The 1k height is what is default in the parachute spawning mod.  Why did the author choose 1k?  You have to ask him.  It could have been 5k.

 

Good luck on getting Bohemia to fix that! 

[Spin Khan 0]

Z, my comment was just in fun.  Thanks again. 

I must admit to being pretty amazed at what can be done with the scripting built into Arma and what some of the modders have been able to actually accomplish.  Do you really think this has to be fixed by BI?  I mean it might be nice if vanilla Arma itself handled this better but I still wonder if it can't be fix with a mod.  I'm no expert at Arma scripting but as a Software Engineer older than I should probably admit, a new language doesn't bother me, but I don't yet know the engine well enough to always know what's possible, probable or even the lines between what only Arma can do and what a mod might do, so I welcome the general thoughts on the matter.  For example, your use of "parachute spawning mod" confuses me a bit as I see paradropping in as part of vanilla Exile, but I really don't know if by this you might be referring to scripts Exile has included from elsewhere or it's native to Exile or whatever.  I'm learning what I need to learn on the fly so, as in this example, I've not looked or considered it any deeper than that so sometimes the actual boundary lines are still a bit blurry.

Seems to me, given the things I see in the Exile mod and others that achieving a better tracking/glide-ratio might very well be done in a mod.  At first glance, adjusting the player's lateral positioning as he's falling seems like it would be possible to fix.  I do notice the animations are accurate enough, regardless of actual gliding distance, when you push forward the body animations appear relatively correct. 

Any further thoughts?

Thanks again!

[Z80CPU 527]

Do not fret!  You were correct and I have no issue being called out on doing 'wrong things'! 

If it was put into ARMA, then you would not need a script.... 

BUT, it CAN be addressed with a script.  It would involves using some physics formulas to get placement correctly, but it can be done.
 

My script in allows me to (for example) put on a wet suit, the teleport 2k out at sea with an altitude of 1k, then 'drop in'.  You cannot do this without adding a chute, moving your man out to sea, then have them jump out of a heli, etc.  blah..blah...blah.  Mine?  I just select the script height, map opens, I select where I wish to be dropped, and BAM!  I am teleported over that area dropping to the ground.  All of my gear was 'memorized' before the adding of the chute, then the chute is added.  At 150m, if I have not deployed the chute, it will automatically deploy it for me.  After landing, all of my gear is 'restored'.

While you can do all of that in default ARMA, it is so much work! 

 

As far as what you can and can not do, you are pretty much limited ONLY to your imagination!  Exile, epoch, Breaking Point, Wasteland, King of the Hill, and MANY more are nothing but a bunch of scripts!

Even the campaigns that Bohemia provided with ARMA are nothing but scripts! 

 

ARMA is like a blank piece of paper, you can draw anything in any color!  As long as you stay inside the paper, the sky is the limit!

 

Yes, you can 'fix' this yourself, though Bohemia should include this 'fix' in the EXE.  Until that time, YOU can write a script to take care of this!