'45

I tried shooting them to see if it would make them spawn in properly as it sometimes does on floating vehicles. They don't seem to be there as a solid object but the rangefinder on a nightstalker registers them. Some are more solid than others or at least they are to different choppers.

Yes, it's called the Bohemian Waltz or Shuffle but is more like a stumble really...

0000 won't work now because I changed it.

Yeah, that was me, I emptied it and changed the code coz I was just a bambi and couldn't take it without a backpack. Cam back to pack it and I don't know if I got the code wrong but I tried a few and it kept saying wrong code.

Well, congratulations and commiserations in the same breath. I know people make full recoveries from worse so long as they exercise what they have, you'll be fine if there's no obvious damage. Thatnks for all you've done for us, you deserve a break mate, I wish you the best of luck and a full speedy recovery!

How!?

A bit late for that mate, some of them think the school yard is the height of human evolution and what's worse, they're not even funny about it! The point's been made, CUP are not going to change their minds and this has just turned in to a pissing contest. If that's what this was about, that'd be fine, not many of the pro CUPpers have the smarts to make this entertaining, the "won" their license dispute but haven't got a clue how to win a pissing match. Now they're just jumping on Chairbornes coattails to big themselves up.

Ah, someone's in touch with reality! Phew, I was beginning to despair...

It's out of hand. These guys are unreasonable, immature, off the wall, can't partake in civilized discussion and some of them are so dazzled by their imagined intellectual superiority they can't see they've actually sunk this topic below playground levels. Let them enjoy their piric victory. Can someone please shut this kindergarten circus down.

Eh, that's kind of left field... I think you're just being facetious now? My actions do not deny anyone the right to a roof over their head or food to eat. So no, I never have thought how I might be elitist simply because I live in a brick house or manage not to starve until now and now that I am thinking about, I'm completely lost as to how I might be considered elitist for an accident of birth... No, completely lost me there mate... The picture I'm getting is that you're so sure of your beliefs that you're capable of coming up with any argument, no matter how tenuous it is, to support your argument. Yes you are. You're denying people the time to put effort in to creating or fixing stuff that would better serve the community by forcing them to reproduce content that already exists. Ok, so you guys are happy being out there on your own, doing your own thing. You don't wish to be helpful to people who you might find you have more in common with if you tried to explore an amicable solution with them. You've succumbed to the negativity that the anonymity of the internet has created and chosen to tar everyone who belongs to a certain part of the community(I'll let you guess which one ) with the same brush you've tarred the DDOSers, IP thieves and bitches(of which both sides have in spades!). I'm sorry, it's a loss to the whole community of which you are a part of no matter how apart or above the rest of it you feel. I wish you the best of luck in all your endeavors, I'm sure I'll experience the fruits of it at some point on some server, somewhere though I'm sure there are going to be less and less of them which you are, of course, ok with. I'm going to quit trying to persuade you as I can tell it'll be a cold day in hell before you guys change your minds though I still hope someday you will. Best of luck mate.

It's fine to operate at al lose if you can absorb it but not everyone can. Why should any community be forced to die when a solution is possible? Something less? Why settle for something less when it's more than possible to have more? That's limiting the potential of the community and it means we all have to put up with substandards when it is more than feasible to make better improvements, quicker. Denying someone membership of a community because they don't meet your ideals is the very definition of elitism. It may not be a nice nor flattering word but it fits. Your Ferrari analogy, however, doesn't. I agree, no one community should be making thousands for the sole purpose of putting a Ferrari in their garage. That's why I suggest a transparent system that shares any profit within the community for the good of the community, use it to pay for hosting or bandwidth, use it to upgrade RAM or a failed harddrive, anything that benefits the community. As it stands, the situation is detrimental because some of that money is going to hackers to supply the wants and whimsies of players who are going to spend for what they want. That means more headaches for everyone and less time enjoying the game, be that playing it or coding for it. Please help try come up with a solution to prevent this.

This is the sad reality of it all. Saying a community "should" be able to get by on goodwill donations does nothing to change the reality that that's not possible. Limiting the community is synonymous with strangling it. How can it be a good idea to create a situation that will see any part of our community dwindle and die? Communities need to grow and prosper in order to thrive. More servers with quality content running at optimum performance should be everyone's goal. Imagine a player buys a game, they experience a terrible online experience, lots of bugs, glitches and terrible frames. Are they going to stick with that game? Doubtful, especially if the idea of improvements being implemented seems like pie in the sky. If our community could act cohesively, these issues would get solved, more players would join and have a good experience, some of them would get bit by the coding/modding bug and we'd all benefit. What's the harm in that?

I'm not sure where I suggested taking away control from any content creator? If someone goes to the trouble of doing another port of all the Arma2 content to Arma3, that's a huge duplication of effort that's wholly unnecessary. They won't be doing it for the joy of it but because they've been forced to and that's all the worse because they could be putting their time and effort towards other areas that would be of actual benefit to everyone. I'm not suggesting anyone make a living out of it, how anyone can pick up that idea, I do not know. What I do know is, there are players who are going to pay someone for what they want, that means hackers and that's not good for ANYONE in the community. Money is a necessary evil, it's a fact of life and living the life of an esthetic is not going to protect you from the Devil.

To make money means to profit. The solution I'm suggesting does not involve profit, I'm merely saying that a solution needs to be found that benefits the whole community, protects it and helps it to thrive. This currently is not the case. The thing is, not everybody is the same, there are in fact two ends to every the spectrum. We can all accept this and figure out how to get along rather than convincing ourselves that those who disagree with our personal opinions are obviously retarded idiots.

No, no I don't. I'm saying that a better solution should be reached for the benefit of the entire community because, the situation as it stands, is impractical and actually detrimental to the whole community.

See guys, that's how an adult communicates. I might not agree with him completely denying monetization or that it's a great a idea to force many people to duplicate work that's already been done by CUP. The hours of coding lost to the larger community must be staggering because of this. Neither do I think this stance will in any way solve the problem that players are going to pay someone for the perks they want and it won't be to anyone in the Arma community, it's going to go to hackers. I can agree that people shouldn't profit from the content against the creators will but profit implies an excess of funds after costs are met, it would make sense if that were the line in the sand. Right now, the majority of server communities operate at a loss. Personally I think the solution would be an agreement within the community that any monies received beyond running costs be distributed to the creators of any content used by smaller communities on their servers and I think that should even include a kickback to Bohemia possibly to fund the employment of a community liaison. It would have to be transparent and that could be accomplished by publicly publishing an account of running costs, monies received, how and who they're distributed to. It would need a new licensing system, a code of conduct and could possibly do with an accreditation system that says the community supports fair play. The fact is we live in a capitalist society and to say that only those who can afford to fund their community out of their own pockets deserve to run servers is elitist, nobody like elitism bar those who qualify as part of that elite. This has created a situation whereby many different groups are working simultaneously on the same problems instead of communicating and co-operating to share workload amongst themselves thereby solving the problems that the whole community are plagued by, much much faster than is currently possible with the larger community as fractured as it is. Chairborne, thanks for taking the time to respond and for the level headed manner with which it was provided. Also thanks to all you guys at CUP for all the work you've put in to modding for the larger community, keep it up!

Yes, saying a community shouldn't host an Arma server if they can't afford to get by without donations is elitist and insulting, akin to calling someone a peasant. The reality is some players are shouting at us TAKE MY MONEY but they want something in return, if they don't get it they go pay hackers for it. That's the reality this situation is creating. That means more hackers coding specifically for Arma because one section of the community have put a wall around their content. I think we can all agree that hackers are something we should all be actively working to discourage rather than creating an environment in which they'll thrive. How many servers Exile servers have seen poptab resellers on them? That's your evidence of the consequences of the current non-monetization policy. That money should be going to help maintain and build stronger communities.

If you'd bothered to read, you'd see I already have come to that conclusion. You on the other hand keep wittering on with the same stuff, venting hot air and insults. I'm just going to ignore your vacuousness from now on. It's great not knowing you. I hope some day you realise maturity.

You're still posting here, you're not over it and you're not moving on. It doesn't matter what age you are, it's the inability to be civil that's brought this about. CUP has tarred every Arma server owner who disagrees with them with the same brush as those who've ripped developers off over the years. It's the inability to come to the table and come to an agreement like adults do that's brought about this whole situation. Instead they've developed an elitist attitude that equates to "peasants shouldn't run servers." You sir, are either a troll or just as intransigent as you think we on the other side of the argument are. Your opinions speak more about you than anyone else here. How about this, if you can't be adult, just stay quiet. Please.

Ah yes but you're still humorless with all the communication skills of an angry 12 year old!

https://www.bistudio.com/community/licenses/arma-public-license-share-alike : "NonCommercial means not primarily intended for or directed towards commercial advantage or monetary compensation. For purposes of this Public License, the exchange of the Licensed Material for other material subject to Copyright and Similar Rights by digital file-sharing or similar means is NonCommercial provided there is no payment of monetary compensation in connection with the exchange. " So yeah, CUP do have the right to object no matter whether or not it's content is in any way a factor in someone visiting a server. I'm going to attempt to make this a little less impenetrable... The exchange of the Licensed Material means the original Arma content(all this shit here:https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Licensed_Data_Pack ) which has been used by CUP in their similarly copyrighted/licensed material which is then taken and now being used on a server. If those running that server accept money for access to or rewarded with access to any perks are operating outside the agreement and are likely to receive one of Bohemia's PR disaster emails. The only money that someone running a server with CUP content or possibly(depending on the original Arma license applied to the data pack) anything from the Arma Licensed Data Pack, are allowed to receive are goodwill donations. If the original data pack license is the same or similarly states NonCommercial, then simply re-porting across all the original A2 content for A3 will not solve the problem of server monetization. In saying that, any law can simply not be enforced which may be the case with other mods using A2 content. Bohemia may just be cool with someone on the pro-monetization side of the argument taking the data pack and doing their own port but the license will always hang above your head should they decide they disagree with something you're doing. So really, the problem here seems to be that CUP has chosen to enforce their license and unfortunately they're also being dicks about it instead of trying in anyway to be civil to the rest of the community ala Lappihaun. This is a huge PR disaster for both CUP and Bohemia Interactive. Has anybody else got a different understanding of all this?

Wow, why'd you even bother? Is that the best you can come up with nothing to add to the debate and really, your opinion says way more about you than anybody else here. The anonymity of the internet really does bring out people's worst side. It's like a mirror and you should put at least a little thought in to your posts before putting them here for us all to read. Is this how you really want to be seen?

If CUP's license terms do not expressly forbid the types of monetization they're having Bohemia send out all those mails threatening to cut off their battleye, then yes it is strong arming and bullying. They should've read the license properly to make sure they fully understood and were happy with it. Out in the real world, this is called a case of "tough shit." I'm not a fan of this point of view but that's just how it is in the modern world, you protect the fruits of your labor properly or else go cry in to your pillow because you now haven't a leg to stand on. This system has been refined over the course of, I shit you not, hundreds of years and it's the fairest most equitable we have presently. It protects most of us from gouging and the whimsical fancies of those who live in cloud cuckoo land. Wow, is that really your view on server owners...? Sweeping and over generalized, much like we can only imagine CUP's view is. You know, that's hugely myopic and very very insulting, not to mention, without any basis in reality. I 100% guarantee you that there are server owners out there who do donate to devs and do ask permission to use content. NO SEVER OWNER, EVER... I think you should retract that and apologize. Really, if you wouldn't say it to someone's face, you shouldn't put it here either, it helps no one on any side of the argument. Yet we do agree that content creators should be rewarded(Hell, I even think Bohemia should be rewarding the dev community for their sales that have been driven by the community, without whom there'd be no deal with Sony!). There's a foundation here that can be built on but it requires that all parties involved to be capable of compromise let alone rational thought. Making money off their backs? Get over it, people are already making bank from Bohemia to the server hosting companies to the youtubers and streamers. We don't see CUP crying at them so why the hell are they crying at monetized servers? Why is it ok for certain parts of the community to profit off them but not others, I think that's called hypocrisy. They need to grow up and realize that the community is stronger when we work together instead of driving wedges between us.

TLDR: It's time for CUP/Bohemia to get in touch with reality, start showing some meaningful respect to the rest of the Arma communities and think of a solution that doesn't involve strong arming and bullying. It goes further than just the monetization, it's creating an environment conducive to hacking poptab sellers. As admin, I have been approached a number of times by players looking to pay me, through paypal, for poptabs and a number of times we have had to ban hacking poptab sellers. Can you see the corealation here...? The players are shouting "TAKE MY MONEY" at us and we can't because CUP are playing dog in the manger. Do the players care? No, they just find a hacker who'll sell them what they want. So what's happening is the money that players are willing to spend is lining the pockets of hackers rather than going towards the running costs of our servers and we have CUP and Bohemia to thank for this. Another thing is, if CUP's license terms don't explicitly forbid certain types of monetization yet they're crying to Bohemia to strong arm the communities they're not happy with(but are legally within the license terms) over said monetization and having Bohemia threaten these communities, that's bullying. I think we can all agree that bullying makes no one look good or smart. The fact is, whether you're happy about it or not, we all live in a capitalist society, everything costs money or can be assigned a dollar value, i.e. time is money. If the CUP devs are happy to release their content for free, good for them, it's not as if it's not appreciated. Maybe they can easily afford all the time and effort they've devoted to their mods but not every fan of Arma can and they should not be bullied out of running servers by a minority of high minded pie-in-sky stalwarts. If they have a problem with people making money off their content, what the hell do they think server companies run on, fuzzy sentiments and gratitude!? Money is already being made off their content, they're just too obtuse to see it. Why is it ok for one crowd to make money but not another? If it comes down to a problem with people profiting off their content then the meaning of the word profit needs to be examined. If a community's costs come to $100 a month and money in is $100 a month, there is no profit. We could all come to a gentleman's agreement that any excess is farmed out within the communities to developers who are willing to accept donations. If CUP don't want a share, fine, farm it out amongst the rest so they can set it off against their costs or simply reimburse them for their time.

As an Admin on Omnicidal, the crap I take off players, the sheer disrespect and the unrealistic expectations they have, all this must pale compared to the crap you guys take. Thank you for all the work you put in to this Mod at the expense of your own pockets and your personal time. We all get our own thing out of it besides the thanks we get from the community but the disrespect can be a serious detraction, just know that people are four times more likely to complain than they are to give praise. Thanks to everyone involved, @Niuva @Grim @Vishpala @Eichi @MrWhite @Torndeco @maca134 @Zigga @Psycho @Flosstradamus @SpiRe @Taylor Swift @Hawaiian Snow @ka0s @JamieKG @Boxman80 @Andrew_S90 @DirtySanchez @happydayz @WolfkillArcadia @infiSTAR and of course Mr. Hollow! I'd also like to give a shout out to Dwarfer and Weirdizum for the help they gave and all in the DMR community. Also Bluesky and all the Polana Boys. A special shoutout to @MrWhite, sorry you felt the need to go. Having dabbled in design myself, your artwork is top notch and puts a lot of professional studios artwork to shame, it's truly beautiful and was one of the things that impressed me about Exile from the get go. Good luck to you in all your future endeavours, I'm sure you'll be successful. Thanks guys and best of luck for the future!